Alice: Welcome back to the Oathbringer reread yada yada yada crazy avalanche! This week we’ll take the first nineteen—yes, nineteen—POVs in this long long chapter, up through Venli’s first scene.
Lyn: We’ve got a LOT to cover and this reread is going to be a very long one, but… most of us have a lot of time on our hands this week, right? We hope that you’re all doing well and that your families and loved ones are safe and healthy in the midst of this global pandemic. In times like this, it’s so important to maintain social connections—and hey, this reread is one of them, albeit a very distanced one! We’re thankful that we can have this chance to escape from the problems of the real world together, and allow ourselves to submerge into the world of Roshar and the wonderful characters that Sanderson’s given us. Enjoy the reread this week, take care of yourselves and each other, and remember—the most important step a man can take is the next one.
A: And wash your hands!
L: … and stop buying all the TP. (Sorry; jokes are how I cope.)
Reminder: We’ll potentially be discussing spoilers for the ENTIRE NOVEL in each reread—if you haven’t read ALL of Oathbringer, best to wait to join us until you’re done. And honestly, at this point… we’re almost done, so…
No Cosmere spoilers this week, read ahead with confidence!
Chapter Recap
WHO: Everyone, again.
WHERE: Thaylen City, again.
WHEN: 1174.2.8.1, again.
Kaladin battles Amaram, who’s been possessed by the Unmade Yelig-Nar. Adolin, freshly healed by his brother, heads into the city and rescues his aunt Navani, then takes on a thunderclast almost single-handedly (almost… he’s got his Shardblade, who tells him her name). Szeth and Lift attempt to get the King’s Drop to Dalinar, but the Fused prove to be tricky opponents, even for them. Shallan struggles to hold herself together as her army of illusions distracts the enemy. Dalinar steps into the Thrill and confronts it head-on. Jasnah continues in her bid for MVP of Thaylen City by repairing the wall and fighting off enemy soldiers left and right. And Venli finally embraces her destiny and swears the first Oath of her Order.
Beginnings
Title: The Spear that Would Not Break
“Ten spears go to battle,” he whispered, “and nine shatter. Did that war forge the one that remained? No, Amaram. All the war did was identify the spear that would not break.”
L: This is one of those quotes that I absolutely adore. It sounds like something out of The Art of War and I am HERE for it.
Heralds:
Jezrien, Herald of Kings. Windrunners. Protecting/Leading. Role: King.
Nalan, Herald of Justice. Skybreakers. Just/Confident, Role: Judge
Talenel, Herald of War. Stonewards. Dependable/Resourceful. Role: Soldier
Ishar, Herald of Luck. Bondsmiths. Pious/Guiding. Role: Priest
A: Pretty much every Herald is represented in the chapter, one way or another, but these four were chosen for the icon. I would assume that Jezrien and Ishar represent the central roles of the Windrunner(s) and the Bondsmith, while Nalan and Taln represent themselves. Nalan’s Skybreaker, Szeth, also plays a fairly important role; Taln, as Herald of War, would also represent the soldiers on the field. I’m sure there are more associations that could be made!
Icon: The Double Eye of the Almighty represents the “everyone, again” POVs.
Epigraph:
If the journey itself is indeed the most important piece, rather than the destination itself, then I traveled not to avoid duty—but to seek it.
—From The Way of Kings, postscript
A: This is a clear reference to the first Ideal of the Knights Radiant; there is some speculation that the Ideal itself originated with Nohadon. We don’t know, but the way this is written implies that “journey before destination” was an accepted truism, at the very least, at the time when this was written.
Stories & Songs
Don’t be intimidated! Syl whispered in Kaladin’s mind. History notwithstanding, he’s only a man.
L: Uummmm, Syl, got some bad news for ya…
The red glow from the helm deepened, and Kaladin got the distinct impression of something enveloping Amaram.
A black smoke. The same that Kaladin had seen surrounding Queen Aesudan…
A: Yeah, real bad news. We never really saw what happened to Aesudan, beyond the crystal carapace, glowing gemstone heart, and black smoke, though Odium said that the power consumed her. Now we get to watch Amaram go through the process of growing his own crystal armor, and it’s really rather revolting.
He could hear the Thrill. A thrumming, insistent, warming pulse. Almost like the beating of a drum.
“Hello, old friend,” Dalinar whispered, then stepped into the red mist.
A: Would it be safe to assume that the Thrill is humming one of the rhythms? Also, it’s fascinating to watch Dalinar’s step-by-step movement toward his final goal.
L: That’s gotta be a rhythm for sure. But which one…
“This place is three, still,” [Ivory] said. “Almost three.”
“Or three places are nearly one,” Jasnah replied.
L: Calling back to our discussion last week regarding Honor’s Perpendicularity… Ivory seems surprised by this, too. This continues farther down:
“Three worlds,” Ivory said. “Slowly splitting apart again, but for now, three realms are close.”
“Then let’s make use of it before it fades, shall we?”
A: The implications of Honor’s Perpendicularity make my head hurt. But the way Jasnah and Ivory make use of the proximity is pretty amazing. What an impressive team they make!
A sharp violet crystal burst out of Amaram’s elbow, cracking the Shardplate there, glowing with a soft inner light.
L: This is so weird! And this is only the beginning:
Amaram raised it to loose again, and a line of crystals jutted out along his arm, cracking his Shardplate. Storms, what was happening to the man?
L: All of this just gets weirder and weirder. What exactly is going on, here? Is this Unmade part Singer? And how does it seem to have Surgebinding, as we see here:
Amaram slammed his foot down, and his Shardplate boot shattered, exploding outward in bits of molten metal. Beneath, his ripped sock revealed a foot overgrown with carapace and deep violet crystals.
As Kaladin came in for his attack, Amaram tapped his foot, and the stone ground became liquid for a moment.
L: Whaaaaaaat?
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Rhythm of War
A: Exactly. That was… umm… Cohesion, I think? This is the point at which we realize that Yelig-nar really might have access to all the Surges, as was postulated in Hessi’s Mythica. (See: Chapter 95 epigraph.) YIKES.
L: But WHY? HOW?
A: Sure doesn’t seem fair! On the bright side, it seems like it can only possess one person at a time, so… there’s that? I guess? Talk about an overpowered villain, though!
The highlord pushed with one foot and glided across the ground…
L: And there we have Friction.
A: Remind me to keep a running tally of what Surges we see him using next week!
Being near the mist made Kaladin feel nauseous.
L: I’m always intrigued by the fact that Kaladin has never been affected by the Thrill. I hope someday we get an answer as to why.
A: Is it possible that his early nascent connection with Syl protected him from it? Or would it just be lack of proximity until the bond was stronger? Nergaoul seems to be an area-of-effect dude, and it was concentrated on the Shattered Plains during the time when Kaladin was in Amaram’s army.
L: I’m inclined to think that it’s because of the bond. We don’t see any of the other Radiants being affected by it either.
[Dalinar] had imagined [the Thrill] as some evil force, malignant and insidious, like Odium or Sadeas. How wrong he was. … The Thrill regarded these events with a sad sense of abandonment and confusion. The Thrill didn’t hate. Though some spren could make decisions, others were like animals—primal, driven by a single overpowering directive. Live. Burn. Laugh.
Or, in this case, fight.
L: Almost makes you feel bad for the thing.
A: It almost does. I love the way Dalinar understands it, and it almost makes me sad that he’ll use that sympathy to entrap it. (I mean… it really needs to be trapped and taken out of play, but it’s like trapping a dangerous animal that’s just following its instincts. Has to be done, but you feel bad, too.)
He’d heard descriptions of these things from his father’s visions—but looking up at it, he was struck by the shape of its face and head.
A chasmfiend, he thought. It looks like a chasmfiend. The head, at least. The body was vaguely like a thick human skeleton.
L: Well, that’s interesting. Are these the souls of chasmfiends that have possessed the stone?
A: It’s kind of hard to know what they are. From Venli’s POV earlier, in Chapter 115, they were described as:
… two larger masses of energy—souls so warped, so mangled, they didn’t seem singer at all.
A: She seems to assume that they’re singer souls anyway, but… how would she know? And why would they choose a shape that looks like a chasmfiend? So… maybe?
L: Maybe they choose that form because they know that it’s intimidating to the humans.
Relationships & Romances
“Go,” he said. “I’ll be fine. Save the city. Be Radiant, Shallan.”
L: There are so, so many things to love about Adolin, but I think this is one of the biggest, for me. He’s not emasculated by his betrothed completely over-powering him; he just takes it in stride and supports her completely. It’s so beautiful.
“Elhokar?” she asked, tense.
Adolin shook his head. “I’m sorry.”
She pulled him tight, and he dismissed his Blade, holding her as she shook, letting out quiet tears.
L: Poor Navani. To have to hear that her son is dead, and in these circumstances… I’m glad she has this small moment to grieve, but she’s not going to have long.
…but in that moment, Adolin did what he could to comfort a mother who had lost her son.
L: My heart. ::sniffle::
A: I just ache for her here. For Adolin too, for that matter—he really hasn’t had time to grieve, while they were trying to get through Shadesmar. They don’t have much time, even now, but this… this just hurts. Navani has always tried so hard to be optimistic about these things, but unlike Jasnah’s presumed death, this loss is definite. I’m glad they have even these few minutes.
Bruised & Broken
The illusory Adolin glowed with Stormlight and floated a few inches off the ground. She’d made him a Windrunner.
I… I can’t take that.
L: Oof. Poor baby. I wonder if this is sort of a combination of Veil’s attraction to Kaladin and Shallan’s to Adolin combining in her mind? Or maybe she just inwardly feels that the best role for him would be protecting others (which I could absolutely see). Either way, it’s forcing poor Adolin to have to literally face what he thinks are his own failures and shortcomings, which has got to be painful—especially when it’s the person you love who’s manifesting them.
A: It had to feel just a little bit like “I love you, and if only you could fly you’d be perfect.” So, yes, that had to hurt. So did this part:
His father had been focused on the Radiants, and had neglected to give Adolin a specific duty. So maybe he could help the defenders inside.
A: There are (at least) two ways to look at Dalinar’s action here: He only cared about what the Radiants could do and just ignored Adolin; or he needed the Radiants to take care of specific things suited to their skills, and trusted Adolin to do what he’d been trained for, and doing for the last six years. I go with the latter, because that’s exactly what he does.
L: Yeah, I think he trusts his son enough to know what needs to be done without being directly ordered to do so. Unfortunately, Adolin is in such emotional turmoil and uncertainty right now that he can’t see that.
Adolin reached for a discarded sword, then paused, and—feeling a fool—summoned his Shardblade. He braced himself for a scream, but none came, and the Blade fell into his hand after ten heartbeats.
“I’m sorry,” he said, lifting the glistening weapon. “And thank you.”
L: Interesting that he expected a scream. Just because he’s met Maya now, or because he’s just come face to face with that Windrunner-illusion and deep down, maybe was hoping that he’d manifested Radiance?
A: That’s a good question. I assumed it was from spending all those weeks in Shadesmar where he couldn’t use his Shardblade, and having literally just come from a fight where his only weapon was a harpoon. But it might be a hidden hope; even though he never consciously wishes to be a Radiant, how could anyone not want it?
L: I think he wants it, even if it’s a subconscious desire. You’re right; who wouldn’t?
Phantoms appeared, created from Stormlight by the woman with the red hair. These were the shadows in the darkness, the ones he heard whispering of his murders. How she brought them to life, he did not know.
L: Yikes. That’s pretty sobering.
A: That was really weird. It makes me wonder if everyone sees the same thing in this army, or not. Was Szeth actually seeing the people he’d killed, rather than Shallan’s memories?
L: I definitely read this as a trauma response. I don’t think that he’s actually seeing the people he killed so much as just seeing a big group of ghostly people and attributing the aspects he expects onto them.
“No,” Szeth said. “I am not good at being a person. It is… a failing of mine.”
L: So I’ve always had a thing for an angsty, tortured anti-hero protagonist (Hello, Angel from Buffy the Vampire Slayer) and Szeth absolutely fits this bill. I’m so excited to see his eventual arc, I really do think that he’s going to wind up being one of the most powerful and compelling characters in the series by the end of all this.
A: This line was almost heartbreaking in its simplicity. He is so uncertain of himself; we’ve noted elsewhere that he feels incapable of judgment on his own, so he has to follow someone else’s decisions. The fact that it comes in a conversation with Lift makes it feel even more childlike.
The brands on Kaladin’s head seemed a fresh pain as he dove to strike Amaram.
L: At first I wondered if there was more to this, like if the brands were hurting because he was seeing himself differently (finally) and maybe healing them… but the more I think about it, the more I think it’s just because it’s Amaram he’s attacking, who was responsible for those brands to begin with.
A: Yes, I think it’s Amaram’s presence, and the chance to finally confront him in a fight, with no one telling him “this is not the time.” That’s got to be cathartic in itself—and now he has the responsibility to protect someone else from this foul poser who has killed so many people he cared about!
“I created you, bridgeman. I forged you.”
L: ::vibrates in anger:: Honestly, I don’t know who I hate more, Moash or this jerk.
A: Right? He’s so smugly self-righteous, despite his momentary lapse in the previous chapter where he admitted he couldn’t forgive himself. That, apparently, was only for Dalinar. Kaladin is expected to give him all honor and thanks. UGH.
Kaladin knew that Blade well. … It seemed a symbol of all he’d lost, particularly now in the hand of the man who had lied to him. The man who had taken Tien away.
L: GET HIM, KALADIN.
A: YEEEAAAAAH!
Her father stepped from the Light. And her mother.
The illusions immediately started to fail, melting back to Light. Then, someone seized her by the left hand.
Shallan gasped. Forming from mist was… was Veil? …
Another hand took Shallan’s on the right. Radiant, in glowing garnet Shardplate, tall, with braided hair. …
Others boiled at Shallan’s feet, trying to crawl from the Stormlight, their glowing hands grabbing at her legs.
“… No,” Shallan whispered.
This was enough. She had created Veil and Radiant to be strong when she was weak. … The other versions of Shallan retreated into the Stormlight.
L: There’s a lot to unpack, here. I love the idea of Shallan having these other aspects of herself to rely on, despite the fact that it’s… problematic in many respects. As we’ve discussed in this regard before, we all take on different “masks” in different social situations. In this case, her two primary personalities are supporting her and helping her to fight off her insecurities, which is wonderful.
A: It really is a fantastic moment, despite the trouble these multiple personas have caused. I found it intriguing that Radiant is wearing “glowing garnet Shardplate” when she appears. Does Shallan actually have access to the Shardplate, or is that just something she’s projecting on her Radiant persona? And is that what it will look like when Shallan can finally summon it on her own?
L: I assumed that she was just imagining what it would look like based on dead Plate she’s seen.
A: Oh, and once she accepts the support of Veil and Radiant, and dismisses all her other guises, her illusory army goes wild. Figures by the hundreds, and Illusions who resist the swords and spears of the enemy? Wow.
How much of his reputation was him, and how much of it was—and always had been—the sword?
L: Oh, Adolin. Don’t sell yourself short. The sword is just a tool, you’re skilled!
A: I was going to say “this sword is more than a tool!” … but at this point, she really isn’t more, or not much more. A living Blade is a partner rather than a tool, but she isn’t really living—yet. (I’m counting on this to happen someday!) In either case, the one with the sword still has to have plenty of skill.
Life could not be lived making decisions at each juncture.
L: This is going to be the biggest hurdle Szeth has to overcome in his broad character arc, I think. He needs to learn that he can’t just rely on someone else giving him orders… He needs to learn to trust in himself and his own moral compass.
A: That’s going to be really hard for him. He’s practically destroyed himself trying to follow codes, but at the same time he’s acknowledged his personal responsibility for the things he’s done. I have to wonder, though; he’s gone from blindly following Stone Shamanism, to agreeing to follow the Skybreaker codes, to questioning Nale’s decisions, and now to choosing Dalinar as his “moral compass.” Is the next step going to be making decisions on his own?
She’d made thousands of illusions. Each one… each one was her.
A portion of her mind.
A portion of her soul.
L: Yikes. That’s a scary thought. I can’t help but think of Voldemort, dividing up his soul into horcruxes in order to save himself… I know it’s not the same situation because these illusions aren’t completely divorced from her and she can reclaim them, but still:
Each one of her illusions that died hit her with a little shock. A sliver of her dying.
L: Biggest of yikes. Poor girl was already traumatized enough…
A: The way she keeps going, though!
Those were reborn, as she pushed them out to dance again.
A: The perception disconnect here is pretty great—she’s sending up this army of Illusions, but she thinks of them as “dancing.” Um… I don’t really know what to think about that! Plus, somehow, she’s creating sound to go with them. Just… how? I have to include one other tidbit; I don’t entirely know what to say about it, but I need it here.
She gripped Veil’s and Radiant’s hands tighter. They knelt beside her, heads bowed within her painted tapestry of violence, her—
“Hey,” a girl’s voice said. “Could you, uh, stop hugging yourself for a minute? I need some help.”
A: I wanted this here for two reasons. One, because while Shallan perceives herself as kneeling with her helpers on either side, holding their hands, from the outside it looks like she’s got her arms wrapped tightly around herself. It’s an interesting disconnect. The second reason is that the last sentence is going to have a major impact in the second half of the chapter. Just… keep it in mind, okay?
As he did, he heard a whimper from behind.
Adolin gritted his teeth. I could use one of those storming Radiants about now.
He ducked back into the building and flipped over a table, finding a young boy huddled underneath. … He hauled the boy out right as the thunderclast smashed a fist down through the roof.
L: Honestly, I don’t think this belongs in this section but I don’t know where else to put it and it needs to be pointed out that ADOLIN KHOLIN IS THE GOODEST BOY ON THE PLANET OF ROSHAR. (He and Kaladin are neck-and-neck in this race, because you KNOW Kal would have done the same thing, but Adolin’s coming out a smidge higher in my opinion since he’s not going to sulk about it later and blame himself for everything. Adolin does what he has to and moves on from what he can’t change, and just treats everyone with respect and care and a good-natured sense of humor.) Okay. I’ll get off my Adolin fan-girl train now…
A: Riiiiight. Lyndsey, you’ll never be off that train.
L: …okay, that’s fair.
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The Unspoken Name
Tight Butts and Coconuts
“How do you feel?”
“Do you realize how fond I was of this jacket?”
L: Me to Adolin.
Wow, the sword said. That’s impressive vocabulary for a child. Does she even know what that last one means?
Szeth Lashed himself into the air after the Fused.
If she does know what it means, the sword added, do you think she’ll tell me?
L: For how creepy and dangerous Nightblood is, he sure can inject a good dose of humor into a situation!
A: LOL
“I have failed to carry this burden.”
“That’s okay. Your weird face is burden enough for one man.”
“Your words are wise,” he said, nodding.
L: Bless this buddy cop comedy in the making.
“But I’ve got an idea. People are always after stuff, but they don’t really like the stuff—they like having the stuff.”
“These words are… not so wise. …”
A: LOL again. Poor Szeth—his mind just isn’t devious enough to follow Lift’s (admittedly cryptic) way of thinking and speaking. But this idea of hers is actually pretty great, though we have to wait to see it next week. The funny thing is, her words are far wiser than probably either of them realize.
I think he’s deevy anyway.
L: Have we heard this used before in Warbreaker, Alice? Or in this book? I forget and I don’t have the ebook yet to do a search…
A: It’s been used in Oathbringer, but I don’t think it was in anything before that. It’s not in Warbreaker, anyway. Red and Gaz used it back in Chapter 44, with Red defining it as, “Deevy. You know. Incredible, or neat, but in a smooooth way.” (He was referring to knives at that point.) Then Lift used it once a couple chapters back, with “Going about on your knees didn’t look as deevy as standing up.” I guess that would be consistent, wouldn’t it?
Speaking of Szeth…
“Was I supposed to save those soldiers, sword-nimi?” Szeth said. “I am a Radiant now.”
I think they would have flown like you instead of falling down, if they’d wanted to be saved.
A: Oh, Nightblood. You are so naive sometimes… But this is one of those “making decisions on the fly” things that Szeth is struggling with now, isn’t it?
Delightful.
L: I’m here for Kaladin with his deadpan inner-monologue snark.
A: My kind of humor.
A handful of Thaylens fought here, trying to bring the thunderclast down. The ropes had been a great idea…
L: “Hey guys, so there’s this really old movie, The Empire Strikes Back…”
Weighty Words
Storms, he could be down on himself sometimes. Was that the flaw that had prevented him from speaking the Words of the Fourth Ideal?
For some reason, Syl sighed. Oh, Kaladin.
L: The way I read this, he’s wrong and Syl’s frustrated and/or sympathetic for him. Probably more of the latter than the former.
A: I read it just slightly differently. He admits he could be “down on himself sometimes”—and then promptly finds that in itself to be another reason to be down on himself. And Syl is like, dude, just stop with the navel-gazing already.
Although yes, I’m pretty sure he’s wrong, and Syl knows it. Introspection is not going to give him the answers; every one of his Ideals so far has been about others, not himself.
L: Are they really, though? “I will protect even those I hate, so long as it is right” isn’t fully about others. It’s also about overcoming your own prejudices and/or preconceptions.
Instead, he found only Jasnah Kholin, looking completely nonplussed. A glow faded around her, different from the smoke of her Stormlight. Like geometric shapes surrounding her…
L: Shardplate! Go, Jasnah!
A: ::grits teeth, resists complaining about “nonplussed”… much::
So… what spren are those, that have “geometric shapes” and are related to inkspren? (On the so-far-reasonable assumption that Shardplate is formed by lesser spren associated with the greater…) The only “geometric” spren we’ve seen so far, at least that I can find, are shockspren, which take the form of pale yellow triangles. Not sure how shockspren would be related to inkspren, so maybe it’s just a kind we haven’t seen yet.
Jasnah casually flipped her hand toward them. Once, their souls would have resisted mightily. Soulcasting living things was difficult; it usually required care and concentration—along with proper knowledge and procedure.
Today, the men puffed away to smoke at her barest thought. It was so easy that a part of her was horrified.
L: Interesting that the ease of this is dependent on how much Stormlight she has access to… Jasnah is definitely overpowered!
A: It might also be a combination of being supercharged and half-way in the Cognitive realm. It seems reasonable that she might have greater control due to the overlapping realms.
Looks like we’re cornered, the sword said. Time to fight, right? Accept death, and die slaying as many as possible? I’m ready. Let’s do it. I’m ready to be a noble sacrifice.
No. He did not win by dying.
A: This is practically a theme for the Radiants, isn’t it? (Aside from the fact that Nightblood wouldn’t die, he’d just get picked up by someone else.) But the big question of self-sacrifice and what that really means… For Szeth to realize this is a pretty big step for him.
He felt something. A stirring on the wind.
“You want to fight it, don’t you?” Adolin asked. “It reminds you of when you were alive.”
Something tickled his mind, very faint, like a sigh. A single word: Mayalaran. A… name?
“Right, Maya,” Adolin said. “Let’s bring that thing down.”
L: This gives me the chills, it’s so awesome. You GO, Adolin! Do the impossible! Heal that poor spren with nothing more than care and empathy!
A: Chills for sure. To not only feel her emotions through the bond, but for her to manage to tell him her name? That was gorgeous.
“I embrace you,” he said. “I accept what I was.” … “Thank you,” Dalinar said, “for giving me strength when I needed it.”
The Thrill thrummed with a pleased sound.
L: This whole scene is just so damned powerful.
She attuned the Rhythm of the Lost. She clung to the solemn beat, desperate—a rhythm one attuned to remember those you missed. Those who had gone before.
Timbre thrummed to the same rhythm. Why did that feel different from before? Timbre vibrated through Venli’s entire being.
L: I have an interesting thought about this. The Rhythm of the Lost seems like it attunes (heh get it) quite well with the Oaths of the Edgedancers. Could it be that Venli’s Order is going to have more connections with the other Orders? Or maybe it’s the fact that she’s a Singer that’s different. Maybe she’s just more in tune with the natural rhythms of Roshar, which are themselves what the Orders originally built their Oaths off of…
You can change.
“Life before death.”
You can become a better person.
“Strength before… before weakness…”
I did.
“Jou—”
L: Sanderson just excels at these “almost swearing the first Ideal” moments, doesn’t he? At least this one didn’t end in a tragic death.
A: Seriously! I love the way this one plays out. Venli is grabbed by a Fused, who chastises her for her “weakness” and insists that she must choose whom she will serve.
“I choose,” she said, then shouted, “I choose!”
A: The Fused walks off all satisfied, thinking he knows her decision, and instead she discovers that Timbre has managed to imprison the Voidspren. (see below) Quietly, with no one watching and no big fireworks…
Her skin started glowing with a soft white light.
“Journey before destination.”
Cosmere Connections
You’re supposed to contradict me, Szeth, the sword said, when I say I don’t eat people. Vasher always did. I think he was joking. … It’s all right! Be happy. Looks like there’s a lot of evil to slay today! That’s greaaaaaaaaaaat, right?
Then the sword started humming.
A: So aside from the obligatory “Nightblood cracks me up” reaction… I couldn’t find anything in Warbreaker about Vasher saying Nightblood eats people, but I didn’t do an exhaustive search. What I was really looking for, though, was Nightblood humming, and I found one instance: When Vasher tells him he’s a little too good at “destroying evil,” Nightblood begins to hum, “pleased at the perceived praise.” Is that enough to infer that Nightblood hums when he’s particularly pleased with himself? It’s a little creepy, considering what he did to Szeth and Lift in the previous chapter!
L: Maybe he’s just going native and tuning into the rhythms!
A Scrupulous Study of Spren
“This place is three, still,” [Ivory] said. “Almost three.”
“Three worlds,” Ivory said. “Slowly splitting apart again, but for now, three realms are close.”
“It is,” he said from her collar. “It is.”
L: I’d just like to point out how interesting it is that Ivory generally seems to speak in doubles… He repeats things an awful lot.
A: His speech patterns are interesting in general. He uses such odd phrasing, I often have to do a double-take to figure out what he meant! Not here, obviously, but often.
Timbre pulsed from within her. Inside her gemheart.
“I’m still wearing one of their forms,” Venli said. “There was a Voidspren in my gemheart. How?”
Timbre pulsed to Resolve.
“You’ve done what?” Venli hissed, stopping on the deck.
Resolve again.
“But how can you…” She trailed off, then hunched over, speaking more softly. “How can you keep a Voidspren captive?”
L: Wow. This is really, really cool. Also, I adore Timbre. It’s amazing how much I can be made to like a character based on nothing but emotions!
A: Isn’t that fun? Timbre is so cool. Also, incredibly resourceful! How she figured this out, I have no idea, nor what she’s actually doing—but she’s made it so Venli keeps her Envoyform, while preventing the Voidspren from having any control or communication.
Arresting Artwork
A: For reference, another awesome map. I love having a visual reference for all these different things that are happening.
Well, there was a lot happening in this chapter, and we know we left out all sorts of things that could have been quoted and discussed. Bring it all into the comments! Next week, we’ll cover the last half of Chapter 120. Be ready for an overload of exclamation points.
Alice is feeling slightly guilty about enjoying the excuse to stay home ALL THE TIME, though she’s slightly worried about what happens when she runs out of TP, having failed to participate in the apparently requisite panic buying. Y’all stay safe, stay out of crowds, and wash your hands, okay?
Lyndsey is in self-quarantine since her son is sick with who-knows-what. As an extrovert, this is going to be a particularly trying time for her… especially since the convention she staffs, Anime Boston, was canceled. If you’re an aspiring author, a cosplayer, or just like geeky content, follow her work on Facebook or Instagram.
The very next word is …
Dalinar was certainly affected by the Thrill. Of course he’s deliberately making a Connection with it, to bind it.
And by the end of this book … everyone seemingly has finished grieving for, and totally forgotten, Elhokar. Bugs me that the only one who remembers him at all is Moash.
Remember, she might have already reached the Plate-manifesting stage before she regressed (before the action started in Way of Kings).
Or not. Remember Lift has Cognitive Realm-vision due to her weird boon. Or the curse, we don’t really understand her yet.
Literally on the fly. Deliberate pun?
Venli recapitulates Elhokar’s death scene here. In the middle of a huge battle involving Kholin troops and the Fused, trying to take the oath on the very battlefield and being interrupted by a servant of Odium. Elhokar fails, Venli succeeds. It’s even (and this must be deliberate) at the same point! “Strength … before weakness …” Even the same ellipses! They both get stopped right there.
Variations on several themes, the … theme of this book.
I love how she just promised to value strength over weakness, and someone immediately accuses her of weakness.
The Venli scene was one of those WHAT! moments for me. Some parts of this were “Of course” moments–of course Kaladin was going to fight Amaram, right? Venli becoming a Radiant totally astonished me, without descending to the level of “twist for the sake of twist.” It makes perfect sense, and it gave me chills.
This could be interesting.Envoyform gives her one set of supernatural powers (language-speaking better than a Bondsmith’s, inspiration like an Edgedancer [maybe]) and Timbre grants another set. I believe Brandon would call this “hacking the magic system.”
No Cosmere spoilers, eh? I have to put one in, now, just to be contrary. Um … At the end of Elantris, a character who is clearly Brandon Sanderson’s in-world avatar shows up to do exposition. It’s a first novel, he got better at writing later.
Honestly, Adolin facing the Thunderclast is one of my favorite scenes in all of Brandon’s book: it got amazing kinetic action which isn’t burdened by the description of lashes and surgebinding, it’s got tension because Adolin’s survival is never guaranteed, it’s got odds, it’s… it has everything which make a good action scene fun to read. I do not know if readers acknowledge how badly wounded Adolin walks out of this scene and the double healing he got in such a short time made me wonder about the Jasnah excerpt we got so long ago. Why? Because in it, Jasnah mentioned how stormlight might heal the physical wound, it couldn’t heal the psychological shock of having been wounded. So I wondered about how Adolin really fared, after this battle, once the dust settled.
So I love this sequence: one of Brandon’s best sequence.
I also love the additional insights we get of Adolin late in Oathbringer. Prior to OB, literally no one bought into the argumentation Adolin felt insecure, did have a “work harder” copying mechanism which could become unhealthy is pushed too far, and certainly did not know how he was. After OB, readers still chafe at the idea Adolin might actually have issues, but more of them have seen the same elements I saw, so long ago, in the character. And this is fantastic.
I do think it is easy to dismiss Adolin wondering if he would be worth anything shall he be stripped of his name, his Blade, and his rank. I do think it is easy to brush it away because Adolin does not spend hundred of chapters repeating how broken he is like other characters do. He does not admit to having any issues, he just lives them without needing to make the world know they exist.
In this chapter I hurt in having Adolin acknowledge Dalinar did indeed forget him. I disagree with Alice and Lyndsey (and probably everyone else) Dalinar gave no task to Adolin because he internally considered he would find one for himself. I vehemently disagree with this because it has never happened before. In the past, each time they had a task to accomplish, Adolin was Dalinar’s go to individual, he was the first one to get his assignment. Dalinar not even bothering with Adolin does illustrate a change of mindset: Adolin is no longer the useful tool he once was, so Dalinar will not waste his time with him. And yes, there is a WoB which does state Dalinar does think of people as tools he can use, and this does include his sons. So I must disagree here. There are no narrative evidences Dalinar internally thought Adolin would find something useful to do and decided he did not need to give HIM a task when he bothered to gave EVERYONE else one. Never had Dalinar behave in such manner: this is a change and I believe this change happened because Dalinar internally decided Radiants were more useful than regular men. He is not wrong, but Adolin is his son and I will expect more out of a father. At least, ask him if he is alright I seem to be the only one who noted how only Shallan (and Renarin) bothered to check on him.
When Shallan made her illusion, I do think Adolin felt he couldn’t deal with the knowledge he was not a Radiant, with the knowledge he was inferior. It is one thing to internally think of it, it is another think to have your betrothed downright obliquely set a reminder you are indeed inferior.
I love how Maya came to be! How she tried, again, to protect Adolin. I really liked this.
On the side notes, I do think Adolin worried about the scream not because he half expected to hear it to confirm him becoming a Radiant, I think, after spending time in Shadesmar, he came to expect the scream. Because this is how Maya first reacted to him.
I do not think Adolin believes he can be a Radiant. I think he believes he is unworthy.
I don’t think Adolin ever really grieve. I think he shoves grief down in order to remain functional. I think his copying mechanism make him appear more healthy then he really is.
So much to comment on! Let’s start with this:
L: I’m always intrigued by the fact that Kaladin has never been affected by the Thrill. I hope someday we get an answer as to why.
A: Is it possible that his early nascent connection with Syl protected him from it? Or would it just be lack of proximity until the bond was stronger? Nergaoul seems to be an area-of-effect dude, and it was concentrated on the Shattered Plains during the time when Kaladin was in Amaram’s army.
There is, of course, an answer to this:
You two should really utilize the WoB Coppermind!
Here are my thoughts on a couple things I disagreed with.
On Adolin expecting to hear a scream:
My understanding was that the unbonded shardblades always scream. It’s painful for them to be pulled into blade form against their will. It’s only when a Radiant forms a bond that they can hear the screams of the other spren though. Except when Adolin was in Shadesmar and Maya was standing right next to him, he was also able to hear the scream. I think it’s why he’s so thankful to her as a sword now, because he knows when he summons her that it’s a bad experience for her since they aren’t bonded.
On Jasnah easily puffing guys into smoke:
I don’t think it’s because she has so much stormlight. She says living souls normally fight the soulcasting. But here she’s fighting men who gave up their consciousness to Odium, so they can’t resist her soulcasting.
Heh, I tried hard to finish this chapter but this week has been so busy I only made it halfway through, just past the Venli part. Thank goodness you are doing this in two parts!
Like Lindsey, I also adore the quote that gives The Spear that Would Not Break its title. Ugh, the villain who takes credit for creating the hero, like they are doing everyone a favor by being some sort of murderous jerk, gets a good debunking. Though this is more for next week.
About the three places being almost one, I think we see this manifest in a lot of ways, but it doesn’t seem consistent. For example, I don’t think Kaladin, Lift, or Szeth showed any heightened powers or extra perceptions from the closeness of the Realms, whereas Jasnah, Shallan, and Renarin seem to be affected by it one way or another. I assume the Fused aren’t gaining any benefits because it is Honor’s Perpendicularity that caused the closeness of the Realms, because otherwise I would think that they, too, would take advantage of it.
About The Thrill, I loved how this part turned my perception of it from a thing into a being. Like a sad lonely pet because its beloved owner had abandoned it. A sad lonely bloodthirsty pet.
About Adolin, I missed that part about the illusionary Adolin flying. Poor guy, so that’s why he brought up flying when he tried to break up with Shallan. Heh.
About Dalinar ignoring Adolin, I generally agree with Lindsey’s and Alice’s points, but also think Dalinar has limited perspective. He is used to being the pinnacle and others are tools he uses to reach his goals.
I think Adolin expected Maya to scream because that’s what she did when he tried to summon her in Shadesmar. He knows now what she feels when he summons her. Note that he apologizes to her, and thanks her for coming.
About Szeth hearing voices, maybe he does if the Realms are close? If Shallan is drawing from the closeness of the Spiritual Realm, I suppose it is possible. I guess this means Szeth does have some sort of heightened awareness from the Realms after all– though not directly since it comes through Shallan’s power.
I have realized that there is just too much in this chapter (half chapter) for me to comment on everything right now. I need to go do things, unfortunately.
So here’s a question I’ve been waiting months and months to ask:
Why was the King’s Drop dun, instead of infused with Stormlight? Right after they get it, there’s an immediate reminder that every gem in the vicinity is infused. So it hardly seems like it could have been an authorial oversight.
I get the definite impression that they couldn’t have used it to trap an Unmade if it weren’t dun, too, so that was important.
@3
Austin, we do utilize the coppermind and WoB database when we have time, but there’s SO MUCH information in there that it can be hard to remember or track down every little thing. It’s also important to note that not all the WoBs are canon. (This one almost certainly is, yes, but we don’t want to rely on those as absolute truths until they’re actually in the text.
@6
Damn, that’s a REALLY good question! I didn’t even think of that, but you’re 110% right
nightheron @5 – “A sad lonely bloodthirsty pet.” Bahahahahaha – you got me on that one! Love it. It’s a perfect description.
You make a good point about who is or isn’t affected by the closeness of the realms, and it makes a lot of sense. (Of course Sanderson thought about this, even if hardly anyone noticed… including me… sigh…) Kaladin, Szeth, and Lift – the Windrunner, Skybreaker, and Edgedancer – don’t seem to be affected. Jasnah, Shallan, and Renarin – the Elsecaller, the Lightweaver, and the Truthwatcher – do. Looks to me like those who use Soulcasting and Illumination, two of the three Surges that make strong use of the Cognitive realm (the other being Transportation, which Jasnah also has) are the ones who benefit from the conjunction. That’s pretty cool, and so understated I didn’t even notice.
David @6 – Hmmm. We know it was dun, because Chiri-Chiri ate its Stormlight. But why wasn’t it re-infused when Dalinar summoned the perpendicularity? I can think of two possibilities: One, simply because it was in the possession of the Fused at the time; two, because they’d carried it far enough away not to be affected. By the time we next see it, they’ve got it on one of the ships, so… maybe? That’s all I’ve got.
Adolin is just the best here, in my opinion. He’s the HUMAN with just a sharblade who is fighting against the THUNDERCLAST, I mean… I realize that it’s probably my inner fangirl talking and I’m a bit biased since he is my fave, but seriously though? He had the worst odds since he doesn’t posses any powers, he possesses skill
@8 Wetlandernw,
Your explanation about why some Radiants were affected and some were not is sound. Thanks. The only thing that doesn’t fit is Lift, since Regrowth seems to tap into the Spiritual Realm.
@10: Did Lift use Regrowth in the sequence?
@11, I don’t think she did. She did use it right before in trying to save Szeth from Nightblood (ooh, and as the perpendicularity opens she does manage to “heal” him – though it’s likely just Nightblood getting “full”) but I imagine if she did she would have gotten some benefits in the same way Renarin could insta-heal during this. I feel like some have speculated he could heal so quickly because he was using regrowth on himself so it compounded with normal Stormlight healing, but maybe it was especially powerful because of the conjunction. In that case, I hope he knows how lucky he was the next time he decides to get thunder-smashed.
The first time I read this chapter I was thoroughly engrossed by the action. On my reread, I felt like it dragged in some spots. I guess I’ll have to do it a third time ;)
I believe I mentioned in an earlier part of this reread how I found Sylblade to be distracting and awkward and I wished Brandon would use “Syl as a spear” phrasing instead, but I when I reread this chapter I noticed he actually did use both forms. And really, neither is perfect, so I’m just going to take the experience for what it is and enjoy the ride.
So, let me say again how silly I find Kaladin’s fight with Amaram. I understand that an early version of this character in proto-WoK was a dual-wielder, but it makes zero sense for him to be able to skillfully use 2 shardblades, when he only owned one shardblade for a year or so and another for a few weeks. The only way for a non-shard owner to train to use shards was to rent them from the king or possibly a highprince. While I am sure that Gavilar had been generous that way, it was 6 years ago and he only had one blade to lend. In addition, he needed to keep his own skills up, rent his set to other hopefuls and also keep it around enough that his bodyguard could protect him. I am sure that Amaram spent the previous year training with Helaran’s shards, but again, he only had one blade at his disposal. Also, dual-wielding is really hard even with normal-sized weapons, too hard to be useful iRL for the most part. This is a clear example of what should have been “kill your darlings” – Sanderson should have left badass yet plausible dual-sharding to Nale, who had millenia to learn it.
Yelig-nar shows a decent, but Kaladin-manageable preview of it’s repertoire. An opponent who managed to control it for long enough to become proficient with it’s abilities and wasn’t caught in the throes of transformation during the fight would be formidable indeed. Can we expect Vyre to show us how it is done eventually? I think we can. The whole crystal thing makes me think that Yelig-nar does indeed end up occupying at least part of it’s body and mind.
Is there any reason why Kal didn’t throw Syl at Amaram as a spear, though? IMHO, he badly needs some tips from Szeth on how to use lashed objects in a fight, too.
I find it interesting that even at this time Amaram still feels guilty for what he did to Kaladin – yes, he tries to justify it, but Kaladin sees through his attempts. So, even selling out to Odium didn’t help him to completely silence his conscience. Of course, this makes his actions even worse. If he had stuck to his guns and remained an anti-Odium Vorin fanatic, his initial self-justifications would have worked better, ironically, because I am sure that he is a better fighter and general than the squadmate to whom Kal wanted to give the shards, so he could have argued that his betrayal saved more lives than it cost. Changing sides completely negated this, though, and the whole “you never need to feel guilty again” clearly didn’t work out for him either.
Regarding the Thrill – I don’t remember Szeth being affected either, even in the middle of all his murdering back in WoK/WoR, which is interesting. He is afraid to enter the red mist area here, but notably the Fused are also afraid to do so – I wonder why. Lift is completely unaffected, of course. And why is Thrill _red_ exactly? Of the Unmade that we have seen so far, he is the only one that displays that sign of corrupted Investiture. Corrupted from what, I wonder? And yea, one almost feels sorry for it. It does seem that it’s connection to Dalinar was extraordinarily deep, too.
Warped and mangled souls becoming thunderclasts – hm, I always thought that they were singer souls that were so degenerated that they could no longer take over living bodies. But maybe there is more to it. I am not sure why actual chasmfiend souls would have constructed vaguely humanoid bodies for themselves – shouldn’t it be really uncomfortable for them?
So, Shallan’s illusion of Adolin as a Windrunner certainly prompted his attempt to cede her to Kaladin… And yes, it is great how he is not at all jealous of Shallan’s or Renarin’s increased power and importance.
This chapter supports what I have been saying in the Chapter 119 discussion – Jasnah’s and Shallan’s surges massively profit from “three realms being one”, given that they are so connected to the Cognitive and/or Spiritual. Jasnah even directly comments on how much harder the soulcasting normally is for her. So, no general overpoweredness, just in this specific situation. The surges of others are mainly focussed on the physical realm, so they didn’t get bolstered, except by the massive stormlight overload. Szeth’s “voices” are connected to spiritual realm per WoB and didn’t Nale also mention something along these lines? So, it is no wonder that he sees something different in Shallan’s illusions. Could they also look different to Thrilled Sadeas soldiers/ Fused souls somehow attached to them? Maybe. Could explain their failure to keep soldiers on task and come with tactics to disrupt illusions, like the Fused did in Shadesmar.
Poor Navani – so soon after the miraculous return of her believed-dead daughter, she looses her son. I really loved this moment between Adolin and her – and yes, this is yet another example of sifferences between him and his father, that he takes this moment for Navani’s sake. He is also the one to save the forgotten little boy, in contrast to Szeth, who remains focussed on his mission instead of helping soldiers thrown to their deaths. Not that Szeth’s mission isn’t vital, of course.
Carl @1:
Yea, it is really jarring how they’ll all go to “Ehlokar, who?” after this. But then, of course, the general non-reaction to Jasnah’s “death” among the Kholins other than Navani, was also bizarre.
I doubt that a 11-year-old Shallan had progressed to the shardplate stage back then – since she could have summoned it to protect herself from a mere knife and generally get away from that room otherwise.
Huh, I didn’t notice it, but you are right – Venli did almost recapitulate Ehlokar’s demise. Interesting… Also interesting that her skin glows once she infuses stormlight – what about “voidbringers can hold stormlight perfectly”? Will make it hard to hide her abilities from the Fused too.
Gepeto @2:
Second almost everything you say, except that I am more understanding of Dalinar. He was in a crisis situation where every moment mattered. He noted that Adolin was healed, so he wasn’t indifferent to his fate, but he had to remain focussed on the situation before him and the best ways to deal with it. And it is possible that Adolin having been hurt was another reason for not giving him a task. We have seen Radiants shake off potentially mortal wounds, but they heal pretty much immediately and not even really feel pain all that much, because they don’t get beyond the shock stage. Adolin did experience the pain of a gut wound and the terror of certain death, so you are completely right that there should be some kind of fallout.
@2/13 Adolin is a trained soldier who has fought in battle. I don’t the shock from injury would be as sever for him.
@13 you might not feel Amaran had enough time to train with two blades but we don’t know how much of his competency with them is him versus Yelig-nar
Szeth might be closer to other realms because his soul isn’t properly fixed to his body any more after his death/revival.
BTW, no comments on Adolin summoning Maya in 7 heartbeats?
Carl @16 – That’s next week.
@5: Dalinar does think of people as tools to be used to further his goals, not unlike Gavilar. Having this knowledge, I find it hard to support the argument Dalinar just thought Adolin could find himself a task to do when he saw fit to make sure untrained teenagers had a vital task to fulfilled without military support. Adolin could have been this military support. He was the only soldier out there besides Kaladin. Dalinar skipping him is odd because even if Adolin has no powers, he has battle experience which everyone else besides Kaladin missed having.
Hence, the sole conclusion I can make here is Dalinar’s inner focus towards the most useful tools combined with the new heights he reached as the most uber important Radiant ever has made him dismissed…. regular people as useful, including his own son.
I would note here Dalinar always behaved the same with Renarin, prior to him becoming a Radiant. Now he switched.
@13: I did think Dalinar not giving out a task to Adolin might have been because he was injured, but if this was the case, I would have liked to have his inner thoughts on the matter. I agree Adolin very much felt the pain and would have very much felt the shock of it, afterward. We didn’t get to read Adolin, alone in his room, being a closed door.
@14: You do not control shock injury: when the body is injured badly, it will go into shock whether you are a soldier or not. Also, Adolin had never been gravely injured before, so soldier or no, this would have been a new experience to him.
The Thunderclast sending Adolin to tumble down the rocks is akin to… a car accident followed by a 10-foot drop, then another 10-foot drop into rumbles. It does not matter if Adolin is a soldier, he is a human being and he got gravely wounded here. No human being can withstand being hit by a car, then send dropping down 20 feet on rocks without actually getting the shakes. And this scene shortly followed one where Adolin took a spear in his guts.
I think no one could have gone through all of this and walk out emotionally unscathed unless we are watching an action movie where everything is possible.
@16: Hard to know when the reviews end these days… I thought we had read that part too!!!
L: Shardplate! Go, Jasnah!
A: ::grits teeth, resists complaining about “nonplussed”… much::
So… what spren are those, that have “geometric shapes” and are related to inkspren?…”
Might they be Logic Spren? Seems like I remember an image of Logic Spren hovering around Jasnah.
From a global pandemic to a global cataclysm. Somehow it seems appropriate that we are in the thick of the second major battle in Roshar’s version of the apocalypse.
Lyndsey: I believe that Kaladin is not affected by the Thrill because of something genetic he inherited from his mother. Somewhere in her lineage is a group of people who adapted to resist the Thread. Kaladin inherited this trait. I have no textual evidence to support my theory. Just wild speculation.
Edit. Per the WoB Austin @3 posted, I guess my theory about Kaladin’s mother is wrong. Oh well. A good baseball player bats only about .280.
Lyndsey. I hope your son feels better.
Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewHB
aka the musespren
Glad this can still continue despite the pandemic. Hope all are well so far!
Honestly, I do kind of wonder if Kaldain’s ‘being down on himself’ is part of why he can’t say the oath…in a sense he’s so bogged down by all the ways he thinks he fails or has to do it all that he can’t say that oath (especially if it has to do with admitting he can’t save everybody).
This chapter really increased my fandom of Adolin. I’ve always been a fan, but this chapter – him taking on a Thunderclast with no Radiant powers – really shows how awesome he is.
I’ve probably mentioned this before, but he’s really like Hawkeye fighting with the other Avengers – if Hawkeye could talk to his bow. They’ve got powers, or a flying suit, or a super-serum, and he’s just got his bow and arrows. Hawkeye and Adolin are ALL skill. Obviously the Radiants are skilled too, especially Kaladin and Szeth, but Adolin has nothing else to fall back on. He gets on with it and fights anyway, because that’s who he is.
I’d almost rather Adolin not become a Radiant, but be the only non-Radiant with a living Shardblade. That would be even more unique and exceptional. Adolin is a one of one for me.
Carl @1. Nice catch on the dichotomy between Elhokar’s inability to complete the First Oath before he dies and Venli’s successful completion. Although I remembered both scenes, I never made the thematic connection.
Query: Does swearing the First Oath (and having it accepted by the power/powers that be), give the swearer access to Stormlight – even to survive an otherwise fatal sword thrust? If not, than even had Elhokar completed the First Oath, Moash still would have successfully skewered Elhokar.
Gepeto @2: You said “Adolin does not spend hundred of chapters repeating how broken he is like other characters do. He does not admit to having any issues, he just lives them without needing to make the world know they exist.” True. However, the cynic like me note we do get many pages of reading Adolin’s inner monologues doubting himself and his place in the new Radiant Roshar world. (FWIIW, I have no problem with reading Adolin’s inner monologues nor am I suggesting that Brandon has included too many of them). Just noting us readers get to hear Adolin feel sorry for himself rather than people around him. As a born pessimist who always can find something to complain about, Adolin’s skill is something I greatly admire. It would be great not to have my friends and co-workers affectionately call me Eeyore.
Gepeto @2. Not sure if this was your point (and if so, then I apologize for not understanding you made this point). I believe Adolin listened for the scream because he hoped he would hear one. He has come to learn that when KRs hold a dead Shardblade they hear a scream. On the one hand, I believe Adolin was afraid that he too would become a KR because he is not worthy enough (having killed Sadeas). Yet, on the other hand, I think he wants to be a KR as he believes a KR will be more useful in this war. He wants to be as useful as he believes he can be.
Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewHB
aka the musespren
@Wetlandernw, #17 … details!
@AndrewHB
Thu Mar 19, 2020 8:00pm Edited Thu Mar 19, 2020 8:36pm Flag Favorite This
Resist the Thread? Kaladin’s mom is from Pern?
We see Venli use Stormlight in this very chapter, just after speaking the First Ideal. Kaladin was using Stormlight before he swore any oaths, without even knowing it. That’s how Teft spotted him as a pre-Radiant. Both of them were already partway through bonding spren before they swore.
I suspect that not only are the Orders different from each other, each Radiant is probably different. I do agree that he probably couldn’t have healed fast enough to avoid being killed by Moash, literally seconds after swearing. He might have inspired Kaladin to intervene, though–isn’t inspiration what Lightweavers were famous for? Hmm ….
I’m rooting for Kaladin to eventually return to Kholinar and find Elhokar’s blood still staining the ground, speak the third phrase of the Ideal in his name, then insist that Elhokar be remembered as a Radiant. Note the special poignancy here: “Journey before destination.” And Elhokar, after a life of failure and unacknowledged, unnoticed privilege, finally ends up doing the right, the perfect, the only correct thing, and for truly unselfish reasons. It didn’t work, but in the end he took the next step, and became a better person. Journey before destination.
@22: I would think having a living Shardblade would automatically make one a Radiant. I think the only possibility for Maya to become alive again is to bond Adolin which would make him a Radiant. He could remain a non-Radiant, but this would imply Maya remaining dead or in the status she currently has, however we may quality it.
@23: If I recall correctly Kaladin managed to heal himself prior to having said the first oath in WoK. Had Elhokar sustained a more minor wound, he would have probably been able to heal himself though slowly. I think he died mostly because he blow he received was fatal for a Radiant so new.
On Adolin: Adolin’s page time is considerably less than other characters and Oathbringer is the first book he voices out his inner thoughts clearly. In comparison, Kaladin, Shallan, and Dalinar have all had hundreds of pages to voice out theirs. Shallan’s narrative in Oathbringer was 100K long and most of it focused on her voicing out her issues with Veil/Radiant. Adolin never had a comparative narrative which is why I made the comment.
It would be great to have friends, period which is part of the reason why I initially started to like Adolin: he had none despite being outgoing. I had rarely read this in the past. I think a lot of people underestimate the fact they have friends just as I underestimated it back when I had some. Now they are all gone, I find myself envious of people who do still have them. Adolin is a character I saw that could have been used to voice out what I felt. Of course, the moment has passed with OB, this is no longer relevant, but it is a hope I once had.
On my point: I don’t think Adolin believes he can be a Radiant nor do I believe he wants to become one. I think he believes it isn’t in the cards for him. I think he believes murdering Sadeas has bared him out, so I doubt he was either hoping nor yearning to hear a scream to confirm he is on the path. I think he braced himself for the scream because he had come to expect it after his time in Shadesmar where Maya screamed at him when he tried to summoned her.
So my thoughts are Adolin was not hoping to hear the scream, he feared he would hear it because the last time, it scared him. I agree he wants to be useful, but at the same time, he believes he is worthless. It is an odd combo to have inside one person, but while Adolin certainly appreciates the usefulness of Radiants, I do think he believes this is not for him. I noted, months ago, how Adolin was not trying to breathe in stormlight nor trying to attract a spren, unlike everyone else in Urithiru. He just never thought it was a possibility.
I relate to Kaladin so much sometimes. I shame, insult, and belittle myself over my every little action and attribute — including the fact that I shame, insult, and belittle myself so readily. I seldom encounter this precise phenomenon portrayed as being so close to my experience.
I love Lift so much.
Dude, many if not most people have to live that way. It stinks sometimes, but it’s better than the alternative.
Marbelcal @19 – I always thought logicspren were the … well, logical “cousins” to Inkspren, but their form is “tiny stormclouds.” There’s no reason they can’t still be the ones; I was just trying to figure out why her dissipating Plate looked like geometric shapes. I expect we’ll find out eventually.
Thank you! I tried to find out what they looked like (but not very hard).
Wouldn’t Shallan’s Shardplate be Garnet? That is the stone for Lightweavers, right? The Windrunners from Dalinar’s visions had blue Shardplate, I believe? Blue for Sapphire? I always assumed that living shardplate would be representative of the respective order of Radiant?